[Goshi]

djtiesto, on Oct 4 2006, 08:13 AM, said:

The ~150k estimate is if I hit Alt+Y on the battle engine stage... and I don't use MZMs (don't know how).

Its not that hard first just highlight the block you want to be loaded up at all times through the block menu thingy and then save it as an MZX. It only takes on command to load up the MZX though I forgot what is something like 'load mzm' or something and enter its co-ordinates.

EDIT: The command is Put "@<Filename>" Image_file p00 at 0 0

Last two zeros are the x and y values the parameter should just be left alone.

This post has been edited by Goshi: 03 October 2006 - 10:30 PM

[hob nado]

MZMs are the best Exo-implemented feature in MZX hands-down. You can use those things for freaking everything.

(Yes....even more useful than expressions, IMO)

[Dr Lancer-X]

I think it's a tie between expressions, sprites and MZMs. They're all excellent features.

[Exophase]

djtiesto, on Oct 3 2006, 05:13 PM, said:

The ~150k estimate is if I hit Alt+Y on the battle engine stage... and I don't use MZMs (don't know how).

Do you have a board per background? Or even worse, per enemy configuration? Because that'd be a crying shame.

[Dr Lancer-X]

Most likely, he's just got a section of the board dedicated to storing those backgrounds, which isn't necessarily a bad thing (loads of board space now)

[Koji]

It's official, I envy your progress making talents. D:<

EDIT: also a battle engine with backgrounds and multiple enemy configurations would profit GREATLY from MZM's

Also he said that the 150k was from the board's memory usage... and if the board is large... it's possible most of the 150k is from that.

This post has been edited by Koji: 04 October 2006 - 02:08 PM

[djtiesto]

1 board for background... but I only plan on having like 10 or so backgrounds or so...

[Dr Lancer-X]

Koji, on Oct 5 2006, 12:02 AM, said:

Also he said that the 150k was from the board's memory usage... and if the board is large... it's possible most of the 150k is from that.

Could you actually read the posts before replying to them?

Quote

The ~150k estimate is if I hit Alt+Y on the battle engine stage

WHAT board memory usage? There is no such thing on the Alt+Y debug menu.

[Terryn]

Lancer: Yeah, there is. F6/Alt-Y Gives out X/Y, Board #, the board's consumed Robot Mem and current module. The Robot Mem number corresponds to the number pre-port; I checked. (Demon Earth was the relevant example.)

[Dr Lancer-X]

No. Koji said the total board memory.

The robot memory is NOT the board memory. The robot memory does NOT include board data. It only includes robot bytecode. Nothing else

Okay, let's go back to the start. djtiesto claimed that his battle engine took up 150k of robot memory HERE:

Quote

The battle system was a MASSIVE undertaking, and is undoubtedly the biggest and most complex MZX RPG battle system ever... raking in at ~150k total.

Koji then asked if that was just code, or included the board data, MZMs etc. here:

Quote

hrrrm, well the impressiveness of this figure depends on what all he's counting in the size.

I mean he could be counting all the graphic mzm's involved and other such resources.

djtiesto replied that it was robot memory, by stating that he quoted the figure shown in the debug menu, which is the amount of ROBOTIC memory, here:

Quote

The ~150k estimate is if I hit Alt+Y on the battle engine stage... and I don't use MZMs (don't know how).

Koji then ignored this post and posted again, saying:

Quote

Also he said that the 150k was from the board's memory usage... and if the board is large... it's possible most of the 150k is from that.

Which is obviously incorrect, because the debug menu only shows used robot memory. The debug menu even says so, right next to the number.

I then corrected Koji, saying:

Quote

WHAT board memory usage? There is no such thing on the Alt+Y debug menu.

Terryn then said, once again, that the debug menu shows the robot memory, which confirmed my statement.

Let me reiterate:

djtiesto's kikan battle engine uses ~150kb of robot memory. Bytecode. This figure does not count the size of the board, the size of any other boards used, nor any external files that are loaded.

Sorry for getting irate, but it seems to be taking an extraordinary amount of effort to get a very simple point across.

[Exophase]

djtiesto, on Oct 4 2006, 05:11 PM, said:

1 board for background... but I only plan on having like 10 or so backgrounds or so...

You really, really don't want to do that. If you have to make a change/bug fix on one of the battle boards (and you will!) you will have to propogate this change to all of the battle boards. Like Lancer said, if you don't want to work with MZMs you can just copy block a background from the board somewhere. Have a little loader that does the copying and loads a mod for the right music based on some counter(s) (or strings) the transition robots set. The benefit of using MZMs here is that it's just easier to index them.

Chances are the robots can be optimized for size tremendously, 150KB is a huge amount of code and I doubt it's required due to sheer complexity alone.. but none of that really matters much unless it hinders performance dramatically.

Anyway, MZMs are pretty easy to use, try this exercise for me:

1) Draw something in MZX.
2) Block highlight it and hit enter.
3) Select "save as MZM" and save it as example.mzm
4) In a robot enter the line:
put "@example.mzm" image_file 0 5 5

This will paste that block you copied to (5, 5) when you run the game. The 0 in the above line means paste it to the board. 1 means overlay, 2 means vlayer. (okay, it's really p00, p01, and p02 for those who want to nitpick, but the robot editor will convert to that for you)

Don't ask me about the @, it's stupid and should have never been there, I must have been going for some consistency with the copy block to MZM commands D:

[Dr Lancer-X]

Yeah, now that board size and robot memory restrictions are virtually nonexistant, there's no need to have multiple battle boards.

Plus it's just nice to have everything in one place.

[Terryn]

Ah, I missed that finer point. Apologies.

[Koji]

Lancer, I forgot that the alt-Y menu specified robot memory usage, for some reason, I thought it was just memory usage, and since mzx used to only work with one board at a time I assumed 150k was the board's memory usage.

Appologies. Either way, I don't understand why it should have become that huge of a deal... damn.

[steel_dragoon]

People get caught up on little details.
It gets annoying...

Let's focus on the bigger picture here... creating games that we can play and enjoy!

[Spectere]

Koji, on Oct 5 2006, 10:36 AM, said:

Either way, I don't understand why it should have become that huge of a deal... damn.

I think the reason Lancer was so frustrated was that you just seemed to ignore an earlier post that explained everything.

In a sense, I kinda don't blame him, but whatever. We're all friends, right? LET'S HUG.

[djtiesto]

Quick progress update

Systems:
Title Screen - 100%
Options (Tutorial/Sound Test/Credits) - 80% (Just have to do SFX test)
Battle Engine - 95%
Victory Tally/Experience Calculation - 90%
Status Screen - 99%
Shop Screen - 99%
Intro - 100%
Ending - 0%
Game Over Screen - 20%
Minigames - 0%
!!!ALL NEW BEATS!!! - 100%

Areas:
(Map Design/Cinemas/Interactions/Item Placement/Enemies and Enemy Balance)
Bridge: 100/100/100/100/100
Town 1: 100/100/100/100/NA
Shoshinkai: 100/100/100/100/100
Towers of Dub: 100/100/100/100/100
Town 2: 100/100/100/0/NA
Zoo: 100/80/100/0/0 (Got a whole new graphical facelift)
Bootlegging: 100/95/100/0/0
Town 3: 50/100/0/0/NA
Carmageddon: 90/0/0/0/0
Blue Room: 20/0/0/0/0
Final Area: 5/0/0/0/0

Total: I'd say around 70%... I'm aiming to get the first beta out by sometime this summer... beta testing is gonna be fairly rigorous... I'll let you people know more information as it becomes available.

I've put in a few inside jokes to fans of Duky games, as well.

And oh yeah... expect a little surprise soon

New Screenshot
The updated Zoo stage. The more things change, the more they stay the same...

This post has been edited by djtiesto: 27 January 2007 - 09:58 PM

[Goshi]

Looking good but here's the important question.

If you choose to get Mina does that annoying SAM file play over and over again?

[djtiesto]

Goshi, on Jan 28 2007, 01:02 AM, said:

Looking good but here's the important question.

If you choose to get Mina does that annoying SAM file play over and over again?

No, and there's no more "choosing" who you get. There's 4 characters in the party and they all join when the story dictates.

[Goshi]

Ah, but you didn't answer if that annoying SAM file plays or not. Well?

Quote

as an MZX. It only takes on command to load up the MZX

Oh man, fatal typo I have ignored for too long. I meant MZM not MZX.

This post has been edited by Goshi: 29 January 2007 - 03:15 AM

[CJA]

I believe he answered "No," and added another point in the same sentence

[djtiesto]

Nope, no more fart sfx. But there are a LOT of sfx new to this version. So no comments on the screenshot aside from Goshi? Come on guys! This shit's gonna be shit hot, trust me niggas!

[zombieguy]

ok nigga
i trust you nigga

The game is looking pretty great though.

This post has been edited by zombieguy: 29 January 2007 - 05:26 AM

[Joseph Niggas]

Sure djtiesto, I trust you.

Can't wait for this game. ;-)

This post has been edited by Joseph Niggas: 29 January 2007 - 05:54 AM

[Goshi]

cja, on Jan 29 2007, 01:38 PM, said:

I believe he answered "No," and added another point in the same sentence

I am oblivious. News sfx is nice to hear I guess. But considering the removal of getting a certain character on a certain route, does that mean there's no longer that questionnaire that chooses your alignment?

[weasel]

That screen has a lot of texture to it - something that I find lacking in a lot of MZX game graphics. I like it.

[Xx*SaturnineMatthias*xX]

Well, I've never played the original, so I probably can't appreciate what an improvement the graphics are. Way better than the average MZX game though.

djtiesto, out of interest, are you still using an overlay text engine or have you moved on to sprites/vlayer? (I wish we still lived in a world where overlay text engines were the symbol of leetness)

[djtiesto]

NihilistMatt, on Jan 31 2007, 01:24 AM, said:

Well, I've never played the original, so I probably can't appreciate what an improvement the graphics are. Way better than the average MZX game though.

djtiesto, out of interest, are you still using an overlay text engine or have you moved on to sprites/vlayer? (I wish we still lived in a world where overlay text engines were the symbol of leetness)

Still using overlay. I have no idea what vlayer is, although there are a few sprites here and there (nothing fancy with them though).

[asgromo]

djtiesto, on Jan 30 2007, 08:27 PM, said:

I have no idea what vlayer is

It's a layer, just like the overlay or the sprite layer or the normal block layer, but the difference is that you can only work with it in Robotic. It's completely invisible, but practically limitless in size. You can use it as a buffer for stuff.

[T-Bone]

The Vlayer is awesome.