[Keranu]

Not sure how many Turbo fans post here, but I know of one or two at least, so I figured I'd post this here. And I know I don't post here often...

Pre-orders for the long awaited RPG "Mysterious Song" for the Turbo Grafx 16 Super CD are finally open! This is a full game complete with old skool, hand drawn cinematic sequences and voice acting [that doesn't suck!]. Slated for a March 1st, 2010 release. Click here - Frozen Utopia.

[Dr Lancer-X]

Huh, this is still going?

I wasn't much of a fan of Mysterious Song myself, but still, this is pretty cool.

[Terryn]

I honestly thought that this project died. Again. However, now that it looks like it'll actually come to fruition, I'm glad.

[commodorejohn]

Huh! Well, I don't own a Turbo CD unit, but that's pretty cool nonetheless.

[djtiesto]

Pretty garish and ugly color scheme but still awesome.

[Keranu]

Thanks for the comments!

Lancer-X, on Nov 16 2009, 01:02 PM, said:

Huh, this is still going?

I wasn't much of a fan of Mysterious Song myself, but still, this is pretty cool.

You're referring to the original QBASIC Mysterious Song right? Here are the differences in the remake, if anyone's interested:

Revamped tiles - Much better than the pillowshaded original
Reshaded and colored sprites - Again, pillowshading be gone!
Other miscellaneous graphics and animations
Hand drawn cinemas with voice acting - Similar to other TGCD and Sega CD games. Awesome.
Enhanced soundtrack - A little extra oomph added in.
New weapons, armor, enemies, and bosses.
Two extra dungeons - One of them in particular is accessed after beating the game and is MASSIVE. It further explains the story too. Beating it will unlock a nifty little game...
Extra features - Bestiary, armory, and gallery modes that unlock things throughout the quest, as well as the features mentioned above.

"Terryn" said:

I honestly thought that this project died. Again. However, now that it looks like it'll actually come to fruition, I'm glad.

Yeah I mostly made this thread to get your attention . This is only the beginning too, Insanity by Aetherbyte Studios just got released, and between the three active development teams for the Turbo, there are a ton of projects being worked on. If you still post on any Turbo forums/groups, spread the word!

[Koji]

although I think this is pretty awesome, I must admit that my initial impression was "Why didn't they just make this for more modern platforms while maintaining this look"

[Dr Lancer-X]

Koji, on Nov 17 2009, 08:53 AM, said:

although I think this is pretty awesome, I must admit that my initial impression was "Why didn't they just make this for more modern platforms while maintaining this look"

Because, if you look on their website, that's what these people DO. They work on PC-Engine games. =P

[Keranu]

Well I suppose there's a possibility it could come out for the Virtual Console, if that counts .

[Koji]

Lancer-X, on Nov 16 2009, 06:24 PM, said:

Because, if you look on their website, that's what these people DO. They work on PC-Engine games. =P

Yes.. but why? =P

[weasel]

Koji, on Nov 16 2009, 04:25 PM, said:

Yes.. but why? =P

The same reason we (used to?) use MZX. Because it's fun.

[Koji]

oh right, fun. I forgot about that.

[Exophase]

commodorejohn, on Nov 16 2009, 09:32 AM, said:

Huh! Well, I don't own a Turbo CD unit, but that's pretty cool nonetheless.

As one of maybe two people who uses the build of my emulator for PCs you're required to test it on this.

I'm glad they're making this a CD game and not some lame CD + HuCard combo or something, like those Genesis games being sold these days. So you don't need to own original hardware to play it.

Only thing, I'd like to be know what the exact stance is on the price. A lot of these projects have had an air of "we're just trying to break even on sales"; for something on CD I think it's got to be more than that. So has this intended to be a for-profit endeavor or what?

[Koji]

huh, it's one thing to develop from an old platform for fun, but for profit... never gonna happen.

[Keranu]

Exophase, on Nov 17 2009, 03:08 AM, said:

Only thing, I'd like to be know what the exact stance is on the price. A lot of these projects have had an air of "we're just trying to break even on sales"; for something on CD I think it's got to be more than that. So has this intended to be a for-profit endeavor or what?

Well the top priority is to make something for the Turbo community, even if that means losing money. The next priority would be to cover production costs, which depending on where we go to for this, is going to cost between $1,200-1,700, so pre-orders are a great way to front the money for this. I'm not sure how many pre-orders we have sold at this point, but I know it's just over 25, so 25x$35 = $875, still not enough to cover production on it's own. The people at Frozen Utopia who have worked on this game have agreed to keep any profits made from Mysterious Song within the company for future game productions. Originally we were going to sell it for $40, but we found that to be a little too high for people.

[Dr Lancer-X]

Why are production costs so high? I know pressing CDs is nowhere near that expensive, so is it in the packaging and tokuten?

[Exophase]

Keranu, on Nov 16 2009, 11:53 PM, said:

Well the top priority is to make something for the Turbo community, even if that means losing money. The next priority would be to cover production costs, which depending on where we go to for this, is going to cost between $1,200-1,700, so pre-orders are a great way to front the money for this. I'm not sure how many pre-orders we have sold at this point, but I know it's just over 25, so 25x$35 = $875, still not enough to cover production on it's own. The people at Frozen Utopia who have worked on this game have agreed to keep any profits made from Mysterious Song within the company for future game productions. Originally we were going to sell it for $40, but we found that to be a little too high for people.

Most of you are adults who have been doing this stuff for years, right? Is the risk of shouldering a couple hundred dollars each to see a game go into publication really insurmountable? If I were taking a strong role in a game like that I'd be willing to shoulder that entire amount myself if I had to. It's just not worth it to be to limit my userbase to a tiny number of people just to help better recoup that amount of money. Not that I expect everyone to want to support a game with > $1000 but the amount per person here is much less than that.

Having said that, if I weren't doing a game for profit then I'd offer it for free to begin with. I got into a big argument on #utopiasoft, for not understanding how collectors feel about this. Apparently being sold is done more for the few who will buy it, so they'll have something exclusive and valuable, than for the benefit of the makers, and certainly than for the number of people who will play the game. At the very least this isn't going to be locked to play on a very obsolete and difficult to obtain format. I know you guys think that if it were offered for download no one would buy it, but I have a hard time believing that a core group of < 100 people are basing their decision on whether or not they can download it.

But I also think that if it were sold for $10 or less you'd sell well more than three times as many copies. If that doesn't happen then it'd unfortunately mean that the game doesn't have enough appeal to make it commercially beyond being a collector's item intended for PCE fans. But if that's indeed what you want then that's okay - I just assume more than that given that it's being posted about here.

[Keranu]

Lancer-X, on Nov 17 2009, 06:43 AM, said:

Why are production costs so high? I know pressing CDs is nowhere near that expensive, so is it in the packaging and tokuten?

One of the main problems is that the leader of Frozen Utopia is from Puerto Rico, so some places in the states won't ship there or shipping will cost a lot. There is a local pressing plant near him, but they charge $1,700 for a minimum of 1,000 CDs with packaging. So another option is to have it pressed at Nationwide Disc in the states which would cost $1131 for 500 discs (complete with colored packaging and instructions) without including shipping. Since they don't ship to PR, it'd have to be shipped to one of the members in the states. If you know of a better pressing place, please let us know!

This post has been edited by Keranu: 17 November 2009 - 07:20 AM

[Keranu]

Exophase, on Nov 17 2009, 07:11 AM, said:

Most of you are adults who have been doing this stuff for years, right? Is the risk of shouldering a couple hundred dollars each to see a game go into publication really insurmountable? If I were taking a strong role in a game like that I'd be willing to shoulder that entire amount myself if I had to. It's just not worth it to be to limit my userbase to a tiny number of people just to help better recoup that amount of money. Not that I expect everyone to want to support a game with > $1000 but the amount per person here is much less than that.

Originally, the game's expense was going to be completely covered by the leader. But due to terrible financial situations he went through in the past year, that isn't really an option for him anymore. This actually halted the programming production for awhile as him and his wife were too busy struggling with making ends meet and didn't have any free time. The reason for the sudden finishing production of MSR recently is due to his wife landing a decent promotional job that can finally put bread on the table for them and give the programmer time to code once again. That said however, we have been discussing financial plans within the group to chip in any spare change we have to help cover any costs needed. However with the holidays coming up and some financial problems with other members, you can imagine that we won't be able to chip in as much as we could've earlier .

We were influenced to do the pre-order route because of how successful it went with Arkhan's recent Insanity game. And the idea of doing a pre-order actually didn't come from him, but from the Turbo/PCE community at PC Engine FX. Not only did the fans suggest doing a pre-order to help cover funds, but they're the ones who suggested charging more for the game!

Exophase said:

Having said that, if I weren't doing a game for profit then I'd offer it for free to begin with. I got into a big argument on #utopiasoft, for not understanding how collectors feel about this. Apparently being sold is done more for the few who will buy it, so they'll have something exclusive and valuable, than for the benefit of the makers, and certainly than for the number of people who will play the game. At the very least this isn't going to be locked to play on a very obsolete and difficult to obtain format. I know you guys think that if it were offered for download no one would buy it, but I have a hard time believing that a core group of < 100 people are basing their decision on whether or not they can download it.

I think I can agree with a lot of your points on a personal level, but this is the route the group decided to take so that's what we're sticking with. I think in the very early days we were considering releasing a free download version and a pressed version, but I'm not totally sure of that. I guess the bottom line is that the Turbo/PCE fans don't care if there isn't a free download and would be happy to buy any new games that come out for their system. I don't think it's a big deal either way.

Exophase said:

But I also think that if it were sold for $10 or less you'd sell well more than three times as many copies. If that doesn't happen then it'd unfortunately mean that the game doesn't have enough appeal to make it commercially beyond being a collector's item intended for PCE fans. But if that's indeed what you want then that's okay - I just assume more than that given that it's being posted about here.

As I posted before in this thread, the main reason I posted MSR here was to get Terryn's attention about it since I knew he's been around in the Turbo scene for awhile but I wasn't sure if he posted on any Turbo boards anymore. I wasn't expecting to sell any copies by posting it here, but I figured it'd be a good opportunity to get the word out anyways.

This post has been edited by Keranu: 17 November 2009 - 08:04 AM

[Dr Lancer-X]

Keranu, on Nov 17 2009, 05:17 PM, said:

One of the main problems is that the leader of Frozen Utopia is from Puerto Rico, so some places in the states won't ship there or shipping will cost a lot. There is a local pressing plant near him, but they charge $1,700 for a minimum of 1,000 CDs with packaging. So another option is to have it pressed at Nationwide Disc in the states which would cost $1131 for 500 discs (complete with colored packaging and instructions) without including shipping. Since they don't ship to PR, it'd have to be shipped to one of the members in the states. If you know of a better pressing place, please let us know!

These prices are standard, so you aren't getting ripped off. The problem is that you probably don't want a replicator after all. CD replication requires the construction of a glass master, which is expensive and time consuming and the reason they have minimum order requirements of 500-1000 discs. CD duplication would be much cheaper for the quantity you'll probably want, which is more like 100, and this sort of process is fine - it's not sacrificing the quality of the discs at all. A lot of these duplicators are happy to print the packaging in the quantities you'll need, and you'll probably pay only under $3 a disc (AUD prices, mind, as I've only worked with Australian duplicators). This isn't as good a deal as the ones you list, but you'll end up paying a lot less for the quantities you'll realistically end up selling.

Besides, if the thing is a runaway success, you'd be able to use the proceeds to print off a run of a thousand or so.

[Keranu]

We kind of have to use replicated discs because anything less won't run well in old TGCD/Duo systems. They've even been known to cause the lasers to misalign and even break.

[Dr Lancer-X]

Ouch, hmm.. that is a bit of a problem. In that case, you'd be better off going with the 500 disc deal in the US, since shipping 1 (or a couple) of copies to PR would be negligible, and shipping everywhere else in the world from the US should be fairly easy.

[djtiesto]

Hmm, well I didn't realize that it was your game, so I apologize if my comments were a bit harsh. But, anyways... I love the Turbo CD and own the system, so a game that is playable directly on the console is awesome. The only things I weren't too crazy about were the purple carpets, it seemed a bit like I said "garish", and the battle backgrounds, which would look a bit nicer if they were hand-drawn/tiled in a TG-16 style, instead of converted graphics.

[Keranu]

djtiesto, on Nov 18 2009, 01:23 AM, said:

Hmm, well I didn't realize that it was your game, so I apologize if my comments were a bit harsh. But, anyways... I love the Turbo CD and own the system, so a game that is playable directly on the console is awesome. The only things I weren't too crazy about were the purple carpets, it seemed a bit like I said "garish", and the battle backgrounds, which would look a bit nicer if they were hand-drawn/tiled in a TG-16 style, instead of converted graphics.

No problem, anyone's free to post criticism . The castle floor tiles in the original were bright red with an odd design, so I hope these come off as a big improvement regardless . I think we must've agreed on keeping the original battle backgrounds so we didn't stray too far away from the original game, plus we thought it was unique for a Turbo RPG. Though generally I'd agree with you that hand drawn backgrounds would be more fitting.

The initial color conversions we had for the backgrounds in early builds didn't come out so well, but later we were able to improve the quality. Now we've recently found a new app with a nice dithering algorithm to make the backgrounds even nicer, so we're going to implement those shortly. Not only that, but we're considering adding an option in the game that utilizes a coding technique to quickly shift the dithered pixels back and forth to create a color blending illusion. The results for this are very nice, but the only problem is that it only looks really good at 60fps and even though our game doesn't drop below that, some emulators tend to lag the effect.

[Keranu]

Mysterious Song has finally been released! www.frozenutopia.com

[smilymzx]

I really went to like the TG16 because of the extra capabilities that it has, but it is like the NES in where it includes a 65xxx-family processor...

At one point I was porting NES games with Tomaitheus using his emulator, to study around, then I planned to port Super Mario Bros 2 (USA/Doki Doki Panic) and stopped from there.

Now If you can excuse me, I feel like playing JJ and Jeff!!!

This post has been edited by smilymzx: 12 September 2012 - 06:38 AM

[Terryn]

Huh.

Funny you mention it here, because I was browsing eBay on Monday for the first time in ages and saw a copy of it up there. I assumed it'd been out for months and that I was just Out Of The Loop. I don't have $40 to spare and I doubt I will anytime soon, but I'll consider picking it up when I can manage.

As an aside, I've been playing my Duo a bit recently... replayed the Ys games and beat Exile: Wicked Phenomenon (WITH THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP!!!!).

[Keranu]

There's more Turbo nerds around these forums than I thought!

JJ & Jeff rocks, one of my favorite all time games! Exile: WP is all about exploiting the horrible collision detection, lol.

[Terryn]

More like cursing. Being cautious with Rumi takes up three times more time than it should, because her knives mysteriously miss a lot, and pretty much my entire approach in the ark level was about being cautious with her. (Not to mention the two enemies that can hit you with projectiles flying far above your head.) I did like that Sadler and especially Lawrence had reaches several pixels outside of their anims, though.

[Keranu]

Yeah it's a shame, the game had a lot of potential with the ability to switch players. If only the developers had bothered with beta testing and fine tuning the engine more it could've been an excellent sequel. I just replayed through the first Exile on the Turbo recently.