[Dr Lancer-X]

And here it is in a more irritating format.

puzzlerpg.arc (958kb)

(notice how the more irritating the format is, the smaller the filesize? Maybe we should require the use of irritating formats)

[Terryn]

Every game submission must now be done in .nz format, nz_cm compressed, or we'll do everything in our power to make sure your game effectively does not exist.

Hope This Is Not Too Much Of An Inconvenience,

-The Staff ❤

(THIS IS VERBAL IRONY, YOU LITERALISTS)

[Frobozz]

Just did a quick test. Converted all the WAV files into OGGs. The zip archive shrank down to 660KB. I'd upload the archive, but I was too lazy to sort through the engine and change the references in the spots they're at.

This post has been edited by Frobozz: 05 February 2010 - 11:57 AM

[Dr Lancer-X]

Frobozz, on Feb 5 2010, 09:56 PM, said:

Just did a quick test. Converted all the WAV files into OGGs. The zip archive shrank down to 660KB. I'd upload the archive, but I was too lazy to sort through the engine and change the references in the spots they're at.

protip:
1) 'wav' and 'ogg' are the same number of letters long
2) hex editors usually have search+replace

[Dr Lancer-X]

Two unnecessary files (a backup .mzx and an .mzb) deleted, WAVs converted to OGG -q3, search+replaced .wav with .ogg in the .MZX and to top it all off, archived with PAQ-based compression. (try WinUDA)

puzzlerpg.uda (181kb)

[Frobozz]

Lancer-X, on Feb 5 2010, 07:35 AM, said:

protip:
1) 'wav' and 'ogg' are the same number of letters long
2) hex editors usually have search+replace

Amateur Tip:
1) Play lazy and let the guy who already has the hex editor downloaded do all the work for you

[Maxim]

I've been passively pushing for the use of .rar files here.

However, this UDA format looks to be a million times better, holy hell.

[Exophase]

Heheh, Risu is still pushing his completely impractical zip-supremecy. Rar is pretty bog standard. Even 7zip is acceptable.

[Dr Lancer-X]

I personally love RAR. It's pretty much the best there is in terms of encoding+decoding speed to compression ratio and compresses a lot of different things well. On top of that, the archive format itself is nice and flexible, supporting things like recovery records and recovery volumes (both useful in different ways).

That said, in terms of releasing stuff I'll keep with .zip because everyone and his dog knows what to do with a .zip (heck, windows can extract them natively)

Exophase, on Feb 6 2010, 02:31 AM, said:

Heheh, Risu is still pushing his completely impractical zip-supremecy. Rar is pretty bog standard. Even 7zip is acceptable.

On the other hand, a lot more people downloaded Risu's ZIP than Seventh's RAR even though the ZIP was larger and in the second post down...

[Exophase]

Lancer-X, on Feb 5 2010, 11:32 AM, said:

On the other hand, a lot more people downloaded Risu's ZIP than Seventh's RAR even though the ZIP was larger and in the second post down...

I call statistically limited on this data set :C Okay, maybe for this community that's a stretch.

If it was kept rar they would have probably downloaded it! Bad tendencies shouldn't be reinforced. People need to break out of their "zip is easier" mindset, which is probably more subconscious than anything. Maybe MZX should add support for RAR, that'd change things a little ;p

[Risu2112]

This isn't about me, I can handle a .rar as easy as I can handle a .zip. What I don't like is explaining to people what a rar is and what they need to open it with when I direct some one to a link. Also being on a work or school computer that for some dumb reason can't handle .rar's is frustrating.

[Frobozz]

Exophase, on Feb 5 2010, 11:47 AM, said:

If it was kept rar they would have probably downloaded it! Bad tendencies shouldn't be reinforced. People need to break out of their "zip is easier" mindset, which is probably more subconscious than anything.

Zip is easier. Last I verified it was supported by most recent stock versions of Windows and Linux. No need to download a separate application to compress/decompress the files. Granted the internal Windows one is utter crap, I've found it useful on a few occasions (for example when I needed to extract my wireless driver to reach the web to grab 7-zip).

Edit: Risu's comment goes along nicely with my point that zip is just easier. Although nothing is stopping him from grabbing the standalone console decompression program, its still easier for most people to use a GUI.

Exophase, on Feb 5 2010, 11:47 AM, said:

Maybe MZX should add support for RAR, that'd change things a little ;p

If we're going to support any additional formats, I'd sooner see 7z first. The main benefit of RAR (records in case something gets a little out of whack) is a bit pointless when most MegaZeux files aren't huge multiple piece collections. Although frankly, if we're going to get people out of the "zip is easier" mindset, I'd also like to see people stop using WAV files for sound effects when OGG is far smaller.

This post has been edited by Frobozz: 05 February 2010 - 08:20 PM

[Exophase]

Risu2112, on Feb 5 2010, 02:57 PM, said:

This isn't about me, I can handle a .rar as easy as I can handle a .zip. What I don't like is explaining to people what a rar is and what they need to open it with when I direct some one to a link. Also being on a work or school computer that for some dumb reason can't handle .rar's is frustrating.

Maybe you should wait for someone to actually complain before assuming someone will. People downloading MZX games aren't really representative of people at large. And you shouldn't be downloading them on a school or work computer anyway.

[Risu2112]

Exophase, on Feb 5 2010, 12:30 PM, said:

Maybe you should wait for someone to actually complain before assuming someone will. People downloading MZX games aren't really representative of people at large. And you shouldn't be downloading them on a school or work computer anyway.

Where have you been? People have complained about this many times, or are you suggesting that some one needs to complain for each individual .rar uploaded? Come on.

[Exophase]

Risu2112, on Feb 5 2010, 04:26 PM, said:

Where have you been? People have complained about this many times, or are you suggesting that some one needs to complain for each individual .rar uploaded? Come on.

When I think about people complaining you're the only one who comes to mind. Yes, I do think people should complain before you claim it's irritating. Even if it was for some in the past things DO change.

[Dr Lancer-X]

Here's every New Game Releases thread from 2008 on with an alternative archive format (in fact, RAR every time).

Twip RR and Twip 2 Demo (.RAR format, zzo complained)
Achtung! (.RAR format, nobody complained)
Fallen (.RAR format, zzo complained)
Detroit: Crack City (.RAR format, nobody complained)
Potty Humor (.RAR format, nobody complained)
Baconç: Tough Decisions Edition (.RAR format, nobody complained)
Baconç Millenium Edition (.RAR format, nobody complained)
Morning Star (.RAR format, nobody complained)
Musings v 1.1337 (.RAR format, nobody complained)
AutoBit v1.0.0 (.RAR format, nobody complained)
What's this? (.RAR format, nobody complained)
Abrogated MZX Maze Land (.RAR format, nobody complained)
Guy's Last Game (.RAR format, nobody complained)
Fist Full of Entrails Retail (.RAR format, nobody complained)
PalMaster II (.RAR format, nobody complained)
The Shloober Stockpile 2 (.RAR format, nobody complained)
Pessimism Demo (.RAR format, nobody complained)
The Shloober Stockpile 1 (.RAR format, nobody complained)

I guess the lesson here is: people don't care if you use RAR (except zzo, but can you really count him as a 'person'?)

[Maxim]

Lancer-X, on Feb 6 2010, 12:22 AM, said:

(except zzo, but can you really count him as a 'person'?)

[ "NO"

[Frobozz]

Quote

I guess the lesson here is: people don't care if you use RAR (except zzo, but can you really count him as a 'person'?)

I find it a bit funny that in both cases of zzo complaining, weasel had the post before his. And in both cases said more or less the same thing.

This post has been edited by Frobozz: 06 February 2010 - 04:37 AM

[weasel]

Frobozz, on Feb 5 2010, 08:37 PM, said:

I find it a bit funny that in both cases of zzo complaining, weasel had the post before his. And in both cases said more or less the same thing.

Wrong on both counts. Both cases of zzo's complaints had me immediately following him, telling him to get a better archiver program because his didn't want to open RAR.

I don't mind RAR because it's not that big of an inconvenience to me (I usually just right-click archives and tell 7-zip to Extract To /"*" from the context menu), but if we're going to have a battle of the compression formats, I prefer an archive format that is still considered a file and not an abstracted, functionally-limited folder structure (ahem, Windows, I prefer to at least take my games out of their archives first before I play them!).

[Frobozz]

I meant directly below your posts he always made a reply.

[zzo38]

There are various different formats, and I have programs for many of them. But ZIP is common. 7-ZIP DOES NOT SUPPORT RAR FORMAT, I HAVE THE LATEST VERSION AND IT DOESN'T WORK!! (Even though their web-site says it can accept RAR, but it can't) (But at least PAEXT can use RAR, so that's what I use when I have to extract a RAR file) Also, the license of RAR is not acceptable enough, really, it is not acceptable enough to become good enough as a standard format (unless you can make a cleanroom implementation of RAR). But you should probably use ZIP for everything just to be consistent, anyways (even if you use different formats on the forums, you should submit to the archive using ZIP format).

Quote

(except zzo, but can you really count him as a 'person'?)

Of course I am a real person, unless, you make up a new meaning for the words "person" that excludes me for some kind of reason. (But, one day, we were at the restaurant, and, one guy (arbritrarily named "#1" because I don't want to write their actual name) ask me "What are you?" and I (#2) said "A person" but and then #3 said "No, you are not a human, you are a ettercap!" and then, we were all talking about three different things, #3 was talking about the game, and #1 was actually trying to ask me my horoscope sign...... So, as you can see, it can get confusing at times.)

[ThDPro]

zzo38, on Feb 6 2010, 09:32 PM, said:

Of course I am a real person, unless, you make up a new meaning for the words "person" that excludes me for some kind of reason. (But, one day, we were at the restaurant, and, one guy (arbritrarily named "#1" because I don't want to write their actual name) ask me "What are you?" and I (#2) said "A person" but and then #3 said "No, you are not a human, you are a ettercap!" and then, we were all talking about three different things, #3 was talking about the game, and #1 was actually trying to ask me my horoscope sign...... So, as you can see, it can get confusing at times.)

ug.

[Exophase]

zzo38, on Feb 7 2010, 12:32 AM, said:

Of course I am a real person, unless, you make up a new meaning for the words "person" that excludes me for some kind of reason. (But, one day, we were at the restaurant, and, one guy (arbritrarily named "#1" because I don't want to write their actual name) ask me "What are you?" and I (#2) said "A person" but and then #3 said "No, you are not a human, you are a ettercap!" and then, we were all talking about three different things, #3 was talking about the game, and #1 was actually trying to ask me my horoscope sign...... So, as you can see, it can get confusing at times.)

Sometimes I wonder if you'd pass the Turing Test.

If you have to pick a single format then ZIP has its merits, RAR its other merits, 7z its other merits, etc. But at least my driving point on all this is that not enough people mind RAR to make some big deal about it, especially if you're making that big deal on other people's behalf (like Risu is).

[Frobozz]

zzo38, on Feb 7 2010, 12:32 AM, said:

7-ZIP DOES NOT SUPPORT RAR FORMAT, I HAVE THE LATEST VERSION AND IT DOESN'T WORK!!

Works for me with the latest version of 7-zip. Granted I'm using the beta, but I just now upgraded from 4.60 beta (which is slightly older than the latest stable and supports RAR) to the latest beta. Are you sure you have the latest version?

This post has been edited by Frobozz: 07 February 2010 - 02:25 PM

[Seventh Shade]

HEY ZZO38 I PUT ANOTHER RAR IN THE ARCHIVE
STICK THAT IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT

[zzo38]

Frobozz, on Feb 7 2010, 06:24 AM, said:

Works for me with the latest version of 7-zip. Granted I'm using the beta, but I just now upgraded from 4.60 beta (which is slightly older than the latest stable and supports RAR) to the latest beta. Are you sure you have the latest version?

Yes, absolutely. The problem was I had a file called "7za.exe" and I needed the file called "7z.exe". Now I have "7z.exe" and it works. I don't know why I didn't figure this out before.

Quote

If you have to pick a single format then ZIP has its merits, RAR its other merits, 7z its other merits, etc. But at least my driving point on all this is that not enough people mind RAR to make some big deal about it, especially if you're making that big deal on other people's behalf (like Risu is).

The various formats to have merits. As I have said before, the problem with RAR is mostly licensing issues. But ZIP is common (there is programs like 7-Zip, InfoZip, PKZIP, and various other programs supports it, and even Windows Explorer can open ZIP archives). You could use any format on the forums, but on the archive the standard should be ZIP for this reason (or, if you use .tar.bz2 or .7z or whatever, but not RAR, because licensing issues prevent RAR from being reasonable as the standard archive format).

Quote

HEY ZZO38 I PUT ANOTHER RAR IN THE ARCHIVE
STICK THAT IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT

No, no, no, this is not a pipe!!! (And I don't smoke anyways, so I don't need it to be the pipe) I can use RAR files, but I would prefer not to (for reasons listed above). If the file is RAR, I will still get it if it is a file I want to get.

This post has been edited by zzo38: 07 February 2010 - 04:57 PM

[Lachesis]

zzo38, on Feb 6 2010, 11:32 PM, said:

7-ZIP DOES NOT SUPPORT RAR FORMAT

then why does everybody else who has it say it does, myself included :V

[zzo38]

ThDPro, on Feb 6 2010, 10:21 PM, said:

ug.

Don't you mean, "up", instead of "ug"?

Quote

then why does everybody else who has it say it does, myself included :V

Because only "7z.exe" supports it, not "7za.exe" but both files are 7-Zip files. That's why.

This post has been edited by zzo38: 07 February 2010 - 07:22 PM

[Maxim]

NO

[Goshi]

You know that message from the management in the New Game Releases section needs to be changed.

Quote

When uploading your games to the archive, please zip up your game using the .ZIP format, even if it is just a .MZX file. As for less popular formats (such as RAR and 7Z), games uploaded in these formats will be rejected. This is because as wonderful as those compression algorithms might be, ZIP is a near universal compression standard, and the only one that will work with the in-game archive browser planned for MZX.

Which is probably why zzo keeps yapping at us about this.

We should probably change it to:

Quote

When uploading your games to the archive, please zip up your game using either the .7z or .RAR format, even if it is just a .MZX file. IF YOU CANT OPEN THEM GO GET A BETTER EXTRACTING PROGRAM YOU FOOL!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Or something along the lines like that. ... Just change it ==;

This post has been edited by Goshi: 08 February 2010 - 09:00 AM