[LogiCow]

Half-life 2 > Red Faction because it's more recent and makes better use of video card features.
Also Half-life was pretty good and its system requirements are twice as low as Red Faction's.

[Spectere]

Skylark, on Nov 22 2004, 04:40 AM, said:

Whee... I'll probably get flamed for this, but if the Half-Life 2 engine is anything like the Half-Life 1 engine (which is inevitable, and the Half-Life 1 engine pissed me off to no end; the GeoMod engine for the Red Faction series is a million times better in my opinion), there's no WAY I'm buying it.

Why would the Half-Life 2 engine be like the original Half-Life engine? If people were still making games based on the Quake engine that would just be stupid (granted, the Half-Life engine added a TON to the Quake engine, but still). Also, Half-Life came out about six years ago. I'm sure there have been a few technological improvements since then that would allow for additional features.

Also, GeoMod is cool but horribly underused. There was so much that Volition could have done with it, but they didn't. There were a lot of walls that you couldn't even blow through for whatever reason.

Half-Life 2, on the other hand, extensively uses the features of the Source engine (such as being able to pick up items and stack them to reach new areas -- very Trespasser-esque).

I ended up doing a review of Half-Life 2 when I was about half-way through the game:
http://www.spectere.net/plog/index.php?op=...eId=80&blogId=1

That might help you make a final decision. If not, let me know because that would mean that I wasn't doing my job.

[duvel]

Didn't Deus Ex have the whole "OMG YOU CAN PICK UP STUFF AND STACK IT IT'S A GREAT PHYSICS ENGINE?" So, by this logic, Deus Ex(number 1, by the way) is equal to Half Life 2 in terms of the physics(although that's probably not true, as Half Life 2 probably has some other physics goodies), not to mention it's a good game anyways.

[Spectere]

I don't remember being able to stack things in Deus Ex and actually be able to climb on them. In fact, I think the main purpose behind picking things up in the first place was to distract guards.

Half-Life 2 actually requires you to stack things and move objects to solve puzzles.

Trespasser is probably the earliest game I've seen that lets you stack objects and (sort of) climb on them. Unfortunately, I've only been able to play the demo.

[duvel]

No, you can stack up boxes to climb them in Deus Ex. I've done it a few times.

[Malaclypse]

Skylark, on Nov 22 2004, 08:40 AM, said:

Whee... I'll probably get flamed for this, but if the Half-Life 2 engine is anything like the Half-Life 1 engine (which is inevitable, and the Half-Life 1 engine pissed me off to no end; the GeoMod engine for the Red Faction series is a million times better in my opinion), there's no WAY I'm buying it.

IMO, HL1 was better on PS2 than on PC... and that's just sad.

Either way, I'm not buying HL2.

The Source engine was built from scratch, it isn't even really BASED on the Half-life engine.

Also, I'd even go as far as to say that the Half-life engine is a lot better than the geo-mod engine. The Source engine is better than anything on the market today, dude, and DEFINITELY the red faction engine.

[Spectere]

ler, on Nov 22 2004, 06:32 PM, said:

No, you can stack up boxes to climb them in Deus Ex. I've done it a few times.

Oh, alrighty. I couldn't remember -- it's been a long time since I've played it.

Malaclypse, on Nov 22 2004, 06:34 PM, said:

Also, I'd even go as far as to say that the Half-life engine is a lot better than the geo-mod engine.

I can't say that I agree with you on that. I think the Geo-Mod engine is, on a purely technical standpoint, better than the original Half-Life engine. The real problem wasn't the engine, but the game running on it. Red Faction could have made much better use of the deformable geometry than it did. It took what could have been a major gameplay element and made it into a silly gimmick (yes, it was useful in some parts of the game, but most of the time you still wound up searching for a key).

Half-Life basically pushed the Quake engine to the point where you could barely recognize it as Quake. In addition to completely revamping an old (even at the time) engine, Valve made excellent use of what they coded. I wish Volition had done the same. Red Faction was good, granted, but it could have been much more.

[Xombie]

Malaclypse: sorry, but you are incorrect. Source is heavily based on Havok2, and is even compadable in a lot of ways. In fact, the first way that I tried to crack my copy was to put the legit files into the engine for the beta (which was back when they were using Havok2) that I've had forever. It worked amazingly well, but the weapons were screwed up so it was unplayable. The main differences are the accuracy and the scope of the physics. Not only that a large quantity of the game revolved around using all the objects around you to the best of your ability. There is a specific point that I remember being able to use the physcannon to launch a cinderblock into a board and launch myself into the air. I skipped a fair quantity of climbing that way. Despite the linearity of this game, there is a lot that you can do to "beat the system" (or so it would be considered in other games).

As to the geomod engine: its an amazing concept and was way before its time. if it had been done correctly the first time, and were heavily modified I can see that as becoming an integral component in future FPS's (or any game for that matter). Problem is that it wasn't too popular the first time around, so it hasn't been redone that much.

Looking at Source and considering the possibilites of the geomod technology, Halflife 2 may be the best game to this point, but the future is very ripe with possibilities.

[Revvy]

I took this picture while hiking in the Blue Mountains. Please consider carefully.

This post has been edited by Revvy: 24 November 2004 - 10:51 PM

[Skylark]

Malaclypse, on Nov 23 2004, 08:04 AM, said:

[ QUOTE=Skylark, Nov 22 2004, 08:40 AM ] Whee... I'll
probably get flamed for this, but if the Half-Life 2 engine is
anything like the Half-Life 1 engine (which is inevitable, and the
Half-Life 1 engine pissed me off to no end; The GeoMod engine
for the Red Faction series is a million times better in my opinion),
there's no WAY I'm buying it. IMO, HL1 was better on PS2 than on PC...
and that's just sad.: (Either way, I'm not buying HL2. [ /QUOTE ] The
Source engine was built from scratch, it isn't even really BASED on
the Half-life engine. Also, I'd even go as far as to say that the
Half-life engine is a lot better than the geo-mod engine. The Source
engine is better than [ b ] anything [ /b ] on the market today, dude,
and DEFINITELY the red faction engine.

Okay... you should read what I post before spouting.

1. I said the GeoMod engine (used in Red Faction 1 and 2) was way better than the engine (I don't care what it was, it sucked IMO) used in HL1. I did not like the Half-Life 1 engine. And I have not played HL2, nor do I intend to because I do not have the system resources on any of my machines to run it.

2. The GeoMod engine was heaps better than the jerky piece of shit (I couldn't do any better, but hey, Volition did) that was used in HL1.

3. I assumed that HL2, named after HL1, would be similar to HL1 because they are of the same name, and company, etc, and it would make no sense to change absolutely everything and keep the same name.

BTW, did you get the big IMO in there? It means IN MY OPINION. Did you feel that somehow I was damaging your ego, or something?

There should be a game made that combines the GeoMod and Source engines, that would be sweet.

[duvel]

If I remember correctly, the original Half-Life engine was a heavily modified version of the Quake II engine.

[weasel]

No, Ler, it was Quake 1 tech with small bits of Quake 2.
* Weapon bobbing is similar to Quake 1
* Console commands are almost exactly the same
* Still uses Impulse commands

If they were working on Quake 2 tech from the start...that wouldn't be there.

[Pyro1588]

what is geomod?

[weasel]

Geomod is the engine used in both Red Faction games, and its main "selling point" is the ability to deform the levels in realtime, by blowing holes in the walls. Depressingly, they didn't use the technology to much potential (not even in the sequel). I've dreamed up an idea that would work really well with this kind of technology, but sadly it's never going to happen.

[Pyro1588]

just how deformed could things get in the game? and how deformed does the engine allow?

[weasel]

I never did find the limits of the engine, because I always ran out of ammo/resources to blow through the walls. Some of the doors in the game would not blow up, as with the buildings, which kinda defeated the purpose of being able to blow stuff up in the first place.

[Skylark]

A lot of times you could get through the game faster by blowing through things though. Admittadly, RF2 did not improve on the engine at all; in fact, I'd say that the engine was more useful in the original game that was based IN A MINE. But RF2's multiplayer was kickass. RF1's gameplay was better though.

[Pyro1588]

yeah, not being able to blow up buildings does kinda suck =(
if i had that game, i'd sit there for hours collecting explosives by whatever means neccesary (exploration, killing respawning enemies, console, etc.) just so i could stack them up and see how big of an explosion i could trigger.

in splinter cell, i engulfed the entire left side of the auditorium in flames. later, when i tried a bunch of explosives all in the same place, i crashed the game =D